Author Topic: Bad M5 Crash by Taunton last year - Pyrotechnician on manslaughter charges  (Read 6770 times)

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Offline baldy

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BBC News:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-20012262
 
Last autumn we had a great thread here: http://www.westburytownforums.co.uk/index.php/topic,3681.msg43832.html#msg43832
 
 
I said that the people running the fireworks show were to blame for this terrible accident due to the smoke that drifted across the motorway.
 
All sorts of people offered mindless comments and said I was wrong.
 
It is now clear that the police have charged the pyrotechnician with manslaughter after a long investigation.
 
 
Press Release from Avon & Somerset Police:  http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/NewsDetails.aspx?nsid=26308&t=1&lid=5
 
 
Overview of the crash:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_M5_motorway_crash
 
 
Daily Mail (7/11/11)
"Blinded by the black fog: M5 crash motorists blame fireworks but rugby club organiser says it's NOT his fault":
 
 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058391/M5-crash-Motorists-blame-fireworks-organiser-insists-fault.html
 
 
Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8871553/M5-crash-seven-dead-in-worst-ever-smash-in-Somerset.html
 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 11:23:01 am by baldy »
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Offline Michael

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Following your comments on the police sometimes getting things wrong perhaps we had better wait for the courts verdict on this one.

Offline Michael

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Charges dropped then, will be interesting to know the reasoning, could it have been that speed was the major contributing factor?

Offline Mike Hawkins

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Charges dropped then, will be interesting to know the reasoning, could it have been that speed was the major contributing factor?

Or it could be Michael, that manslaughter charges were a "knee-jerk" reaction to a horrific incident whereas a charge under health and safety legislation was actually more realistic!
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Offline charlie finbow

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Mike that would be the sensible option.   The organisers of this event did not set out to harm anyone, sadly an accident occured, thats bad enough, pointing fingers of blame is not the way forward.   Lessons should rightly be learned from this tragety.

Offline baldy

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BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-21024902
 
Looks to me that the relevant authorities still regard this man as the primary cause of the terrible crash, though they regard it as a safety procedure issue rather than reckless behaviour towards life.
 
I wonder if the reality that the drivers were speeding in thick fog, which must have contributed to the crash, means that the authorities regard the crash as caused by a combination of circumstances rather than by one person?
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Offline wanderlust

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I would suggest that some people were driving too fast in fog whilst trying to look at the fireworks rather than what they should be doing.

Of course if the health & safety nazis pick it up, it'll be an excuse to ban all firework displays within 10 miles of a road.  Much more sensible than expecting people to take responsibility for their actions.
Please would you walk a little faster, or get the f*** out of my way.

Offline Al

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Personally, I just hope lessons are taken away from this and everyone can learn and we can reduce deaths in the future. If this makes fireworks organisers think harder about affects of shows, great. If it makes driver slow down in fog, or pay more attention to the road than fireworks, great.
Ride fast, take chances. Just don't blame me when you fall off.

Offline Mike Hawkins

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Of course if the health & safety nazis pick it up, it'll be an excuse to ban all firework displays within 10 miles of a road. 

May I suggest Wanderlust that you look at the HSE website (www.hse.gov.uk) and look under "health and safety myths".

The HSE, who are in power to enforce health and safety at work are also sick to death with those who use "health and safety" as an excuse to ban things. These are usually (a) insurers who want to avoid paying out for any incident, (b) "jobsworths" who use health and safety as an excuse for their own ignorance; and (c) the excuse of those who have been requested to provide guidance but are either too lazy to research the issue, or are completely lacking in the minimum skills to actually find the real answer!

Indeed, the HSE have issued guidance on fireworks safety (also available on their own website)

The "health and safety nazis" have actually no credibility with those who deal with real health and safety at work issues.

I have been employed in real health and safety for over 25 years, and these claims are totally abhorrent to me!!

So Wanderlust, do NOT believe these spurious claims, but look at the real culprits!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 18:50:57 pm by Mike Hawkins »
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Offline charlie finbow

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I know from past experience that certain people use H&SE as an excuse to do or allow nothing.   In my opinion Health and Safety is nothing more than common sense, but, we now live in an age of litigation so they are a target for abuse and blame.

Offline Shizzy

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Re: Bad M5 Crash by Taunton last year - Pyrotechnician on manslaughter charges
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2013, 17:11:16 pm »

 
I said that the people running the fireworks show were to blame for this terrible accident due to the smoke that drifted across the motorway.
 
All sorts of people offered mindless comments and said I was wrong.
 

You were wrong -  M5 Pile-Up: Fireworks Man Cleared Over Crash http://goo.gl/0Xusto

Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

Offline baldy

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Re: Bad M5 Crash by Taunton last year - Pyrotechnician on manslaughter charges
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2013, 17:24:37 pm »

 
I said that the people running the fireworks show were to blame for this terrible accident due to the smoke that drifted across the motorway.
 
All sorts of people offered mindless comments and said I was wrong.
 

You were wrong -  M5 Pile-Up: Fireworks Man Cleared Over Crash http://goo.gl/0Xusto

 
Well .......  he did cause the crash because he caused the smoke to occur which caused the terrible crash.
 
What you are referring to is the failure of the prosecution to secure a conviction for breach of health and safety rules based on a technical argument about him not being able to foresee how the smoke would drift during misty weather.
 
He did cause the crash because he caused the smoke, but the Law of the land is saying that he is not guilty of an offence.
 
We already know the Law is often an Ass.
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Offline Mike Hawkins

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Re: Bad M5 Crash by Taunton last year - Pyrotechnician on manslaughter charges
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2013, 18:29:59 pm »
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 18:35:31 pm by Mike Hawkins »
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Offline wanderlust

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Re: Bad M5 Crash by Taunton last year - Pyrotechnician on manslaughter charges
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2013, 18:31:28 pm »
He didn't cause the crash any more than thee fog caused the crash. Stupid bloody diver's failure to react to conditions caused the crash.
Are you in the same camp that blames "dangerous roads" for local crashes rather than dangerous drivers?
Please would you walk a little faster, or get the f*** out of my way.

Offline Michael

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Re: Bad M5 Crash by Taunton last year - Pyrotechnician on manslaughter charges
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2013, 18:48:23 pm »
Excess speed in poor visibility caused the crash there is no doubt about that, it is a fact, there will have been some drivers who were just caught up in this situation, but that is unfortunate.
As tragic as this incident was it was an accident, and to apportion blame accurately was evidently impossible, all other opinions are just that, opinions.