Author Topic: election bumph  (Read 17006 times)

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Offline Michael

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2017, 19:56:26 PM »
Welcome to the forum Rupert, I too think canvassing worthwhile, however I'm afraid I can't wish you well in your campaign, your party has all but ignored Westbury in the last four years, and it is time for a change, both in town and unitary governance.
The failed Westbury Eastern by pass scheme promoted by the Conservative controlled Wiltshire Council a classic example, costing the tax payer some £3m it was the wrong scheme in the wrong place, and totally ignored the concerns of the voters in the Westbury East Ward who would have had to contend with an increased volume of traffic travelling adjacent to a populated area.
There is no doubt that the people of the town need better traffic management, and this should be a priority for a new council. A way must be found to route the traffic to and from the A36, to the West Wilts and Hawk Ridge Trading Estates without using an inadequate road through the town.
More and more housing is being built in and around Westbury, but with little thought of the effect on environment and infrastructure, if the town is to cope it needs more investment.
The policy of transferring responsibility for important services to the Town Council, without proper funding must stop. Westbury deserves better.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 19:58:04 PM by Michael »

Offline RupertLescott

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2017, 16:06:53 PM »
Thanks Michael - you make several valid points. I am putting myself forward as an opportunity for people to get a change in the way they are represented.  Since Westbury currently has two Liberal Democrats and an Independent as councillors, I feel that adding a Conservative to the mix will provide balance and I hope to achieve more influence upon Wiltshire Council than is currently the case.

Regarding infrastructure, roads, housing etc., I intend to bring my 'day job' to bear in the way that I will work.  I am a knowledge management consultant, helping organisations to (a) learn and (b) create and share good practice.  When presented with an issue, instead of starting with a blank sheet of paper, I intend to find out who has faced similar situations before and learn from them.  That might mean other towns across the county, or indeed other councils.

There are very few new problems in this world; they are simply new to the people experiencing them.  I hope to learn from others' experience and help others to do so as well.

Thanks again.

Offline baldy

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2017, 16:37:09 PM »
Rupert ... the really frightening prospect for Westbury is that LibDems might get all three Westbury unitary seats if I don't hang on to mine and if you don't win against Gordon King, in which case Westbury would be stuffed. I believe I am able to work with the Conservatives (when they are not being stupid and are actually listening to others) and have a clear track record of results from working with the ruling Conservatives at County Hall.
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Offline Michael

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2017, 18:45:59 PM »
Rupert, It's good to know that you accept the points that I make on the neglect of Westbury by the Tory controlled Wiltshire council, austerity policies have, and continue to be a political choice, and fail to do anything to improve the deteriorating conditions of the town, what concerns me is that there is no acceptance of this at County Hall.

Baldy, Westbury has been failed by the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, contrary to the idea that they, the Lib Dems have opposed these policies is the fact that they have done nothing to stop them, the independent members of the council need to have the opportunity to hear new ideas.

The town needs a new approach and this can only be achieved by electing a core of Labour councillors who will listen to the concerns of Westbury folk and argue for change.
Much needs to be done and this can only happen by sweeping away the old and replacing by the new, a Labour team could help set a new agenda.   

Offline Michael

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2017, 19:40:51 PM »
I haven't had a candidate knock on my door for over twenty years (that was in Barnet).  They'd be wasting their time anyway, as we'll definitely be voting Conservative as usual!  I do like to read the election leaflets from all parties, though.
An interesting point you make here, it begs the question if you read the leaflets, as I'm sure you do, would you ignore them even if you agreed with much of what was written, and simply vote as you always have done, is it a lack of trust, or simple tribalism?
I promise that you'll get a leaflet from me, nothing too contentious so I hope you'll read it, and perhaps come back to me with your observations, comments and disagreements.

Offline John GL

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2017, 22:11:02 PM »
Michael: I never agree with anything the Labour Party says on any subject - not as a matter of principle but as a matter of fact!  Same goes for the LibDems, who really don't have a role and are reduced to trying to outflank Labour on the Left; a forlorn hope with Corbyn and Momentum running Labour.

Rupert: I think Michael's completely wrong about the abortive bypass scheme.  It was the right scheme in the right place, halted by a remarkably unpleasant group of campaigners. 

Offline Bob DeBilda

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2017, 09:05:55 AM »
I believe I am able to work with the Conservatives (when they are not being stupid and are actually listening to others) and have a clear track record of results from working with the ruling Conservatives at County Hall.

Because when it boils down to it you are a conservative. But you're smart enough to portray yourself as an independent because that's what gets you votes. That works at local level where the public are fed up with the big party's. To become an MP anyone would have to affiliate themselves to a party to stand any chance of being elected. I think there has been less than 3 or 4 genuinely independent MP's elected into parliament in the last 60 years. Even then they were 'celebrities' with big ego's.
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Offline RupertLescott

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2017, 13:07:38 PM »
Michael - to be clear, I said you made several valid points.  I did not say what they were.

Offline charlie finbow

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2017, 14:07:58 PM »
I read all leaflets, make my mind up on who tells the least untruths.   Russell's second leaflet has arrived and yet again no promise of changing the world.   Just hard facts of a long local political career.   Personally I would advocate a PWF Party (Put Westbury First) it will never happen so perhaps hard working Independents are the way forward.   However best of luck to all those who put themselves forward.  [beer]   

Offline baldy

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2017, 15:47:11 PM »
Charlie - thanks again.

I actually tried to put together a group (not a party) of Independents at the town council 4 years ago to be labelled as Westbury First ... but one by one they all decided that it was too complicated to work as a group - even though there was not going to be any group policy or whip, so we never got further than one meeting.  The reality is that everyone has different views about local issues and they do not really fit into any group or party setup.

Of course, the Independent Group at County Hall is purely non-political and exists as a matter of Law so that the independents can claim seats on committees by being part of the normal proportional calculations that the lawyers work out and so that the Group Leader can attend meetings with other Group leaders and have access to certain info which the administration needs to discuss ahead of council meetings etc.  In effect, by banding together we are able to get our fair share of good committee seats and then share them out amongst ourselves according to who actually wants to be on which committee. Otherwise, ungrouped independents tend to get allocated seats on committees in a fairly random way by a vote of full council (which is pretty well guaranteed to give individual ungrouped councillors the least favourite committee seats or the ones they did not really want anyway )...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 15:48:56 PM by baldy »
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Offline charlie finbow

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2017, 21:15:58 PM »
Russell well done, shame it didn't progress, but by definition, you cannot have a group of Independents or am I being thick  [beer] 

Offline baldy

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2017, 03:42:48 AM »
You can. A group is simply a collection of elected councillors on the same council who work together. In the case of Independents, there cannot be any group manifesto by definition, so issues would have to be decided one at a time as they occur .... and no agreement may occur.  What I discovered was that this is next to impossible to organise ...... mainly because individuals rather like being seen as completely on their own ... so, for example, ex-Conservatives would not be linked too closely to ex-LibDems  ...

At unitary level, our individual identity is rather better established through the election process and our seats being in different towns or parts of the county anyway and there is definitely no attempt to agree policy with Independents having a completely free vote etc.

As I said above, the main purpose of a Group at unitary level is to be recognised in law for committee seat allocation calculations.

This is different to the town council where committee seats are allocated to each councillor simply by a majority vote of full council with no pretence at political proportionality. In other words a group with a dominant majority at the town council could simply vote all their opponents off every committee if they wanted to. There is no legal requirement for political proportionality

At unitary level, the seats are allocated strictly under a proportional calculation handled by by lawyers in accordance with strict law based on the relative size of the legally-recognised political groups plus ungrouped councillors. The problem for ungrouped councillors at principal authorities where political proportionality of seat allocations applies is that they tend to lose out when figures are rounded up and down so that they tend to not achieve the seat on committees they want .... 

To put it another way, independent groups at principal authority level where political proportionality is mandatory by law for committee seat allocation purposes exist just for admin purposes to obtain a fair allocation of seats. It is a consequence of the law on seat allocations rather than an attempt to create any sort of political force ...
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 03:52:55 AM by baldy »
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Offline jimkerr

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2017, 16:19:14 PM »
Rusty you are a tory everyone in Westbury knows it you need the Independent label to get votes so if anyone voting for you are voting Tory Full Stop sorry but true the problem lies with County Hall not with Lib democrats welcome Rupertl hope you lose and Labour win Michael lets hope someday that some of this towns voters actually apart from saying they want a change actually vote for.



Offline baldy

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2017, 19:46:00 PM »
But, I am Independent in every sense of the meaning of the word. I am not a member of any party and I do not toe any party line.

Being an ex-Tory does not mean that I am a Conservative councillor.

Sometimes I vote with the Conservatives. Sometimes I vote with a rebellion in the Conservative ranks. Sometimes I vote with the LibDems. Ok. That last one is really quite a rarity as they rarely come up with anything that is worthwhile ....
As for Labour, I cannot recall when they last proposed anything at Wiltshire Council let alone anything worthwhile ....
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 20:46:13 PM by baldy »
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Offline Michael

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Re: election bumph
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2017, 09:50:05 AM »
But, I am Independent in every sense of the meaning of the word. I am not a member of any party and I do not toe any party line.

Being an ex-Tory does not mean that I am a Conservative councillor.

Sometimes I vote with the Conservatives. Sometimes I vote with a rebellion in the Conservative ranks. Sometimes I vote with the LibDems. Ok. That last one is really quite a rarity as they rarely come up with anything that is worthwhile ....
As for Labour, I cannot recall when they last proposed anything at Wiltshire Council let alone anything worthwhile ....
Which makes you what, a renegade Tory?
The worst of both worlds then.
I can understand why the Tory's and the Lib-Dems would join forces, after all the Lib-Dems sold their integrity for a seat at the table, but for any real independent councillor to link themselves with either seem a touch ingenuous.