Topic: Do we really care about Brexit

[John GL]

I don't think anyone is ignoring the democratic result of the referendum. It was conducted in such a way that its validity gets called into question because no one really knew what they were voting for and most votes were cast based upon lies by democratically elected members of parliament. (and other twats)

Would another referendum be undemocratic? We have had general elections closer together than any new referendum that could be held now. How far apart do elections / referendums have to be before they are deemed undemocratic?

Surely the public are allowed to change their minds especially if 30 months has passed since the last vote..

Didn't know what we were voting for?  David Cameron made it absolutely clear that a Leave vote meant voting for leaving the EU including the customs union and single market.  He predicted all sort of dire consequences, and made sure everybody saw the predictions by sending a leaflet to every household.  Both sides lied, or at least misled - it's what politicians do.  As to validity, I don't remember anyone saying that a general election should be re-run because the result was close, or because the elected Government has become unpopular (think Wilson in 1968 or Thatcher in 1981).

The idea of holding another referendum because the elites don't like the result of the last one is typical of the EU, and part of the reason why so many voted Leave.

[Bob DeBilda]

Politians are like Nappies. They need changing often and for the same reason.
We all know that.
The majority of people who voted to leave didn’t have a clue what the consequences of leaving the single market or customs union would be. If you asked anyone who voted leave why they voted that way, you would get a different answer every time. Probably give you an answer that they hadn’t thought of at the time!

I’m not sure why you think those who voted remain and resent the result are elites. Far from it. I would say those wanting to leave are the elites! After all they are probably mostly the wealthiest able to ride the storm. And typical of most Tories who only care about themselves and their wealthy friends.

[John GL]

The "Project Fear" propaganda told us that a Leave vote would bring about economic calamity.  The majority voted Leave nonetheless.  No doubt there were many reasons, including sovereignty, immigration and dislike of unelected Eurocrats.

The "elites" I have in mind are the metropolitan chattering classes and big business leaders.  They tend to regard Leave voters as uneducated bigots.  I occasionally see The Guardian and that's very definitely its tone. 

[Bob DeBilda]

The "Project Fear" propaganda told us that a Leave vote would bring about economic calamity. 

The term 'project fear' was coined by the leavers trying to discredit those who really know.

[Shizzy]

Not sure that's right Bob, these same experts told us there would be economic disaster by not joining the Euro. In hindsight probably the best decision not to join it. It certainly end in the economic disaster that was predicted.

In addition not all experts or business leaders predict an apocalypse, there are plenty that see it will be a challenge short term but the prospects and opportunities will be good for the country. Of course both sides will roll out 'experts' that suit their agenda, but it's not correct to say all experts and business leaders are universally against Brexit.

[baldy]

There are different types of "experts". I prefer those who are paid by serious financial institutions for their advice, because they will be sacked if they get their advice wrong, or those who have created serious businesses.

I dismiss the generally left-wing intellectuals who have plenty to say but who are as good as unemployable for any serious business or bank.

When it comes to the Bank of England, it is generally hopelessly caught up with trying to listen to all views including the crazy stuff from politicians who have no clue .... including the government itself which is often too cautious for its own good (Conservatives) or too irresponsible with money and always spends more than is realistically safe (labour), so it often comes out with half baked nonsense especially when the Governor himself is really a political appointment who knows he needs to say what the Prime Minister wants or he'll be leaving soon ...

Ruth Lea is my preferred economist.
Lord Digby Jones, Tim Martin and Sir James Dyson are my preferred Industrialist / Entrepreneurs
David Buik is my preferred financial market commentator. 
These people have a clear track record of success engaging with business and getting things correct.

I'm struggling to think of a perfect politician but I am starting to be very impressed with anything and everything Caroline Flint MP (Labour former cabinet member) says about BREXIT. I see her as a likely Labour leader when the ridiculous nonsense of Corbynism collapses ...
Ok .... I admit I admire Jacob Rees Mogg for almost everything he says on anything at all though I can't abide his utterly ridiculous and irresponsible church which is full of paedophiles and which deliberately tries to ban contraception in a cynical ploy to increase its membership ...

[Pugwash]

Sir James Dyson...really?

[baldy]

But he's not leaving the UK. He is in fact continuing to grow his business base of staff and research in the UK whilst also expanding in Asia. All he is doing is moving his place of registration of his HQ to Singapore to help strengthen his Asian activities where he expects the strongest future growth to occur.


This is someone who actually knows what he is doing and who employs thousands of UK staff and is generating hundreds of millions of £s in taxes ..... not only corporation tax but mostly through VAT paid on his goods and income tax paid on vast amounts of wages he pays  ...

[Maxi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erhAFINz7vU

[baldy]

He's right and he explains himself perfectly well.  Emma is picking at a list of examples in a hurry and in a way where he is not given the chance to answer and explain each one where jobs are moving abroad or at risk. Most of them are at risk  because of the uncertainties of BREXIT which are mostly down to the Remoaners working with the EU to over-complicate and slow down progress with a BREXIT deal because they are trying to stop it rather than trying to help things move smoothly forward.

There is a big difference between jobs being lost because of BREXIT happening (and when businesses know the terms of any deal) and jobs being lost beforehand due to the uncertainty caused by remoaners making everything more difficult and slow.

In any event, most of the jobs mentioned are actually at risk because of other factors such as diesel cars not selling as well as before due to the general diesel emissions scandal and disel cars being banned from some city centres etc or made to pay more tax ...

Another point would be that actually our UK employment rate is still going up not down overall (seasonally adjusted) ignoring the occasional month when it blips the other way. Our unemployment rate is now at a low point which has not been seen for decades ....

[Maxi]

Nissan will drop another bombshell into the heart of Britain's car manufacturing ‎industry next week by announcing the cancellation of plans to manufacture its X-Trail model in the UK.

https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-casts-further-gloom-on-car-industry-with-x-trail-blow-11625885

Brexit SHOCK: A THIRD of UK firms set to relocate in the event of no deal       

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1081417/no-deal-brexit-news-theresa-may-uk-business-no-deal-Leave-EU-referendum

[baldy]

Lots of factors going on here including BREXIT uncertainty and especially the fact that Nissan is part of the Renault-Nissan partnership in which both companies are largely owned by the other with ultimate ownership in France and the French Government holding a significant share ....

On the whole, I'd put this move down mainly to EU politics and currying favour with the French Government who are anti-BREXIT, especially given the timing. In reality, Nissan will make final decisions after seeing what happens in April.

[Maxi]

Not Project Fear anymore, but Brexit reality.
David Cameron Quote before referendum.Stay in for the trade, jobs and livelihoods," he added, saying an exit would "trash" the British economy.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2016/06/02/British-PM-Cameron-to-voters-Leaving-EU-would-be-harmful-madness/1911464908958/

[baldy]

 


That really is Project Fear regurgitated


Nothing new here ...

[Shizzy]

Sir James Dyson...really?

I think this actually proves Baldy's point. Sir James sees the future in the emerging economies of the East, not the EU. If he was worried about Brexit he would be moving his HQ to an EU country.