Author Topic: Do we really care about Brexit  (Read 35704 times)

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Offline Pete

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #420 on: April 12, 2019, 13:21:47 PM »
Well, looks like there will be European elections here in the UK. I wonder if they will be treated as a referendum by leavers and remainers?

Unfortuntely i think the leave vote will be split between UKIP and the Brexit Party so neither will get any seats. That will give the remainers something else to crow about.

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Offline DORIAN

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #421 on: April 12, 2019, 16:53:10 PM »
i must be the only person that admires Mrs May. 0n on on this forum  and what she has done  in  the hours in public office without faltering. she was left in the pooh by Cameroon, and yes, miss read by Whitehall maderins going to the country when she did.
No one came up to face the farce that should never have been allowed, when Cameron decided to have a stupid referendum. with such a narrow split between the stay, and the leave, she had to steer a common ground  to agree with all..... can anyone do that ...NO
JRM shown his true colours, an Mp i had the greatest regard for, until now
so you change your leader, expecting a clean out deal/... it wont happen, because there is no one that can win this no win battle,,,,, even you baldy!!
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Offline baldy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #422 on: April 12, 2019, 18:36:23 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8TfZOy76gg


JRM's sister, Annunziata, is running as a candidate in the upcoming EU election for Nigel Farage's new Brexit Party. I've never heard her speak before but here she is and I definitely like her.

My last recollection of her is when she ran as a Conservative Candidate in the general election in the Frome Constituency a decade or so ago and I recall that people were laughing at her name and the Tories were desperately trying to get her to allow people to use a new nickname for her such as "Nancy". She refused the nickname and insisted on using her full first name of Annunziata and she promptly lost the election in a perfectly winnable seat.

I've made up my mind to totally turn my back on the Tory Party from now on. It will never be able to apologize enough for inflicting Mrs May on the nation as a worse than useless and embarrassingly incapable person with a clear reverse Midas Touch ....  and then the imbecilicly stupid MPs actually expressed confidence in her just when it was obvious that she was simply an awful witch poisoning everything she touches ...
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 18:41:03 PM by baldy »
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Offline Bob DeBilda

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #423 on: April 12, 2019, 18:46:18 PM »
May was thrown under the bus by the rest of the Tories. The job she got was a poisoned chalice. Poisoned by BoJo and Gove etc. I don't know who gave her the advice to hold an election to try and increase her majority in parliament but that back fired. I suspect the same bunch of Brexiteer clowns was behind that decision knowing that it would! They've shot themselves in the foot now.

So is Baldy turning his back on the Tories to support some one time party set up by Fromage? What's the point? Win a seat in the EU parliament and then resign just as quickly? To prove what?



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Offline baldy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #424 on: April 12, 2019, 18:49:53 PM »
The simple aim of the new Brexit Party is to get a proper Brexit.

I'll think about what to do after that when it happens. I'll probably have left politics as a councillor by then as well ...
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Offline Maxi

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #425 on: April 13, 2019, 14:13:21 PM »
Ah for the good old days when only a few  on the far right voted for these policies


Now UKIP Have the same policies And probably the Brexit Party Will.
Why have we become so right wing as a country.





« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 14:19:40 PM by Maxi »

Offline Bob DeBilda

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #426 on: April 13, 2019, 19:27:57 PM »
Nationalism. Its been a gradual move over the last decade or so. Not just in the UK but in a lot of European countries. In my opinion a dangerous change. World wars have been raged due to its insurgence.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 19:55:36 PM by Bob DeBilda »
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Offline baldy

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This is how Remainers plan to destroy Brexit
« Reply #427 on: April 13, 2019, 20:25:55 PM »
Janet Daley writes in today's Telegraph:

This is how it’s going to go. Not long after the Easter recess, Theresa May will offer her minimally changed “deal” to Parliament yet again and, yet again, it will be defeated. In supposed desperation – but, in fact, in line with a strategy in which that result was fully anticipated – the Government will then offer Parliament a series of votes on a number of alternative proposals. These will be along the same lines as the indicative votes that famously got us nowhere. Only this time they will be for real, not just a bit of parliamentary whimsy and, crucially, they will include one that opts to stay in the customs union, which is what Labour now officially favours. That is the only option that will gain a majority, because Labour – on a whipped vote – will have to support it and the DUP probably will, too, because it alleviates (but does not eliminate) the Irish border problem.

Those combined forces would obviate the need for the Government to win over the Tory Brexiteer contingent. At last! Agreement in Parliament on a way forward which the Government can “reluctantly” accept!

On this happy note, Downing Street will decide that a second referendum really is necessary, because there are now two clear-cut proposals to put to the country: the choice between leaving the EU while staying in the customs union, or remaining in with full membership. Under those circumstances, even many of the most adamant Brexiteers in Parliament, in business and in the commentariat (including this column) will be obliged to advise voting for Remain on the grounds that it is better to be an active member of a declining, corrupt protectionist bloc than to be a passive colony of a declining, corrupt protectionist bloc.

So this time Remain will win – probably by a fairly close margin and with a lower turnout than last time, because many furious Leavers (having seen the inevitable closing of the trap) will boycott the vote – but decisively enough for the result to be valid.

At this point there arises the tricky matter of what to do about Article 50. A Commons vote on revoking it would stir up deep and eloquent resentment: in spite of the second referendum apparently overruling the first one, the actual revocation would be an alarmingly inflammatory repudiation of that earlier public judgment and would risk bringing the whole unsavoury process of pushing the country into a choice it never wanted into agonising focus.

So that will have to be fudged. Not a problem. Somehow the infinite ingenuity of Brussels and its friends in the British civil service will find a way to do this without too much fuss. Be in no doubt, even if it requires a wholly new legal mechanism being pulled out of thin air, this will be accomplished. (It will be greatly assisted by the fact that no one has ever tried to proceed with Article 50 before so there are no precedents – we can all just make this up as we go along.)

An indefinite extension probably wouldn’t cut it since this would still leave the dreaded spectre of Uncertainty hanging over trade and industry. But for the liturgical magicians of the EU this won’t be insoluble: one way or another, the words will be found and Article 50 will be suspended without creating an opportunity for an explosive confrontation in the Commons.

What happens next? My own mischievous suggestion that we use our continued membership to create havoc seems dangerously close to becoming official ERG policy (gives friendly nod to Jacob Rees Mogg) but in truth, we would not be the only disruptive element (or “force for change” to use the optimists’ language) in what will be a new era for the EU.

Apparently reliable predictions are that, after the next round of European parliamentary elections, the Strasbourg legislature will consist of about 30 per cent Eurosceptic or populist parties. The leadership of experienced British campaigners for democratic accountability and constitutional legitimacy could corral these disparate forces into a formidably coherent, conscientious legion of resistance to the centralising project. This is, we gather, precisely what Emmanuel Macron suspects, which is why he really, really wants us out.

But in addition to this new composition of the EU parliament with all its rogue elements pulling against the great unification plan (or “renaissance” as Mr Macron grandly calls it), there will be big changes at the top of the bureaucratic hierarchy. Jean Claude Juncker will be gone alas – what a gift he was to the Leave cause. Donald Tusk will come to the end of his presidency of the European Council. What had been the Brexit negotiating team – as well as those to whom it reported – will be reshuffled.

It should be possible for this to become a face-saving opportunity for the EU and its UK allies to embark on a fresh understanding. If the new Brussels oligarchy has any political judgment, it could use this moment of British capitulation not to gloat and exact revenge for the mayhem we have caused, but to declare its appreciation of the genuine problems to which Brexit drew attention. Just imagine what that might be like: an EU which suddenly announced that it understood the value of the democratic nation state and instead of demonising it was prepared to address the concerns of those voters who were making desperate, unsavoury choices because they saw that as their only recourse.

Of course, as we know, that won’t happen. The Brussels hierarchy is a self-regarding, self-generating monolith. No fresh batch of office holders will have the diplomatic cleverness to welcome us back like the prodigal son: to use our decision to stay as an invitation to treat the sensitivities of nationhood with more respect, or a population’s desire for self-determination as morally acceptable, and thus to disarm the frightening, incipient fascism that has been unleashed in Europe. In fact, maybe none of this will ever happen. Perhaps everything I have said here will turn out to be nothing but a bad dream. Feel free to take this column as a prediction – or as a warning.     

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/13/janet-daleythis-remainers-plan-destroy-brexit/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_em

« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 20:30:22 PM by baldy »
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Offline Bob DeBilda

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #428 on: April 13, 2019, 21:01:24 PM »
I think you have just invented a new game Baldy. Fantasy politics  :laugh:
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Offline baldy

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The Conservative collapse is now a national emergency
« Reply #429 on: April 14, 2019, 06:12:14 AM »
Today's Telegraph View:

For months this newspaper has warned that the Tories are headed for an electoral reckoning, thanks to their appalling failure to deliver a meaningful Brexit. Every week, the reply has been the same from the leadership: no one cares, people just want Brexit to go away and when it does the Government can return to the tired old certainties of, say, bailing out the NHS or banning things. But it turns out that voters really do mind that Brexit has been dangerously compromised and delayed, and many core supporters do really resent the Prime Minister’s talks with Labour.

Over the past few days, especially since March 29, the penny has dropped. There has been a precipitous and catastrophic collapse in Tory support. The result: the last five polls show Labour ahead, with a far greater fall in Conservative support among Leavers than Remainers, and the pro-Brexit parties coming up fast. Sir John Curtice writes that if these figures were extrapolated across a general election, the Conservatives would be reduced to 260 seats. Labour has lost ground in the past year, too, but not as much and it can probably count on an unholy alliance with the SNP. This could result in the triple whammy of a Jeremy Corbyn government cancelling Brexit and threatening the Union.

This is a national emergency and there is only one imaginable escape. The paralysis in the Tory parliamentary party must end – Cabinet members and MPs need to remove Mrs May now and replace her fast. They should pay attention to the advice of Lord Spicer and Lord Hamilton of Epsom, two previous chairmen of the 1922 committee, who insist it is possible to change the rules to do so. Britain needs a new prime minister who is 100 per cent committed to Brexit. They need to recapture both the trust and the imagination of the British people by pushing through a radical programme of economic reform, including tax cuts and a sea change on issues such as crime, housing and HS2.

It’s this or certain disaster. Crucially, as Sir John says, their first task has to be to win back the pro‑Brexit support that Mrs May has so needlessly squandered and without which no Conservative government is possible.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2019/04/14/conservative-collapse-now-national-emergency/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_em
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 06:14:00 AM by baldy »
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Offline Michael

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #430 on: April 14, 2019, 07:31:19 AM »
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 07:35:17 AM by Michael »

Offline Shizzy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #431 on: April 14, 2019, 08:32:40 AM »
i must be the only person that admires Mrs May. 0n on on this forum 

Most likely in the country, not just this forum. She is not a leader, she has displayed no leadership skills whatsoever. She inherited Brexit, but the omni shambles we now find ourselves in is of her doing. Lets not forget her disastrous time in the HO which has left the country with its highest levels of knife crime and murder. This epidemic falls squarely at the feet of Mrs May. She is the only person (maybe you as well Dorian) who can not see a link between falling police numbers and the rise in crime, the huge reduction in stop & search and the rise in knife crime.
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Offline baldy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #432 on: April 14, 2019, 08:44:11 AM »
I am ashamed that I used to know her when I was a member of the executive committee of Wimbledon Conservative Association and Philip May was Chairman. He is a very decent genial chap. I never warmed to her as she tended to scowl a lot, hardly smiled and just looked at anyone with disdain when they asked her, as a Councillor, any difficult question.
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Offline Shizzy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #433 on: April 14, 2019, 09:04:00 AM »
She is not a people person, that is clear. The woman has zero empathy. I suspect she will be judged by history as one of our worst Prime Ministers. Most PM's however bad have done at least one good thing, but for the life of me I can not think of one for Mrs May.
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Offline baldy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #434 on: April 14, 2019, 09:08:01 AM »
I was shocked when she effectively caused the Tories to be labelled as the nasty party and so caused more damage on top of everything else going on whilst Tony Blair was PM.
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