Author Topic: Do we really care about Brexit  (Read 286564 times)

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Offline baldy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2017, 13:34:49 pm »
I'm still getting over the shock of the General Election result.

So, Theresa May blew it ....  big time ...

Strictly speaking, the Conservatives won the election as the largest party by some margin who get the first turn at forming an arrangement with others to obtain a working majority to govern with. But, Theresa May has abjectly failed in getting a mandate for herself - she has gone backwards and actually saddled the country with a WEAK AND WOBBLY government.

I personally have no real problem with the Conservatives working with any other elected MPs as long as no deals are done to adopt any offensive policies such as the DUP's anti-abortion rights position.  I actually agree with the DUP on their anti-gay marriage position. I see allowing gay marriage as deeply offensive and simply wrong. I have always said that marriage is between a man and a woman. I fully agree with all other rights being equal between sexes including the availability of Civil marriage.  But, I would never seek to make that a political issue when wearing any hat for any official position I hold as my view about the sanctity of marriage is not relevant to being a local councillor. I have gay friends who agree with me as they think that a civil ceremony is entirely adequate.

May simply has to go and I am sure the Conservatives will arrange this by this Autumn so that there is an orderly transition involving stabilising a working majority and then having a full members vote over the late Summer / Autumn to elect a new leader who I hope is either David Davis or Boris. I think Boris will handle the role well and after a year or so would be ready for a General Election. He can engage with the public - indeed he has none of Theresa May's obvious flaws such as being wooden, characterless, smug or wobbly.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 07:27:06 am by baldy »
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Offline jimkerr

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2017, 16:10:51 pm »
Boris is a Clown that will lead Clowns.

Offline Bob DeBilda

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2017, 16:20:52 pm »
BoJo as PM would give us all a good laugh at least. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

He would make a good double act with the President of the USA  [beer]
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Offline Maxi

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2017, 22:30:43 pm »
THE LAUGHING STOCK OF EUROPE
 If it weren't so serious, the situation in Great Britain would almost be comical. The country is being governed by a talking robot, nicknamed the Maybot, that somehow managed to visit the burned-out tower block in the west of London without speaking to a single survivor or voluntary helper. Negotiations for the country’s exit from the EU are due to begin on Monday, but no one has even a hint of a plan. The government is dependent on a small party that provides a cozy home for climate change deniers and creationists. Boris Johnson is Foreign Secretary. What in the world has happened to this country?

Two years ago David Cameron emerged from the parliamentary election as the shining victor. He had secured an absolute majority, and as a result it looked as if the career of this cheerful lightweight was headed for surprisingly dizzy heights. The economy was growing faster than in any other industrialised country in the world. Scottish independence and, with it, the break-up of the United Kingdom had been averted. For the first time since 1992, there was a Conservative majority in the House of Commons. Great Britain saw itself as a universally respected actor on the international stage. This was the starting point.
In order to get from this comfortable position to the chaos of the present in the shortest possible time, two things were necessary: first, the Conservative right wingers’ obsessive hatred of the EU, and second, Cameron’s irresponsibility in putting the whole future of the country on the line with his referendum, just to satisfy a few fanatics in his party. It is becoming ever clearer just how extraordinarily bad a decision that was. The fact that Great Britain has become the laughing stock of Europe is directly linked to its vote for Brexit.

The ones who will suffer most will be the British people, who were lied to by the Brexit campaign during the referendum and betrayed and treated like idiots by elements of their press. The shamelessness still knows no bounds: the Daily Express has asked in all seriousness whether the inferno in the tower block was due to the cladding having been designed to meet EU standards. It is a simple matter to discover that the answer to this question is No, but by failing to check it, the newspaper has planted the suspicion that the EU might be to blame for this too. As an aside: a country in which parts of the press are so demonstrably uninterested in truth and exploit a disaster like the fire in Grenfell Tower for their own tasteless ends has a very serious problem.

Already prices are rising in the shops, already inflation is on the up. Investors are holding back. Economic growth has slowed. And that’s before the Brexit negotiations have even begun. With her unnecessary general election, Prime Minister Theresa May has already squandered an eighth of the time available for them. How on earth an undertaking as complex as Brexit is supposed to be agreed in the time remaining is a mystery.

Great Britain will end up leaving its most important trading partner and will be left weaker in every respect. It would make economic sense to stay in the single market and the customs union, but that would mean being subject to regulations over which Britain no longer had any say. It would be better to have stayed in the EU in the first place. So the government now needs to develop a plan that is both politically acceptable and brings the fewest possible economic disadvantages. It’s a question of damage limitation, nothing more; yet even now there are still politicians strutting around Westminster smugly trumpeting that it will be the EU that comes off worst if it doesn’t toe the line.

The EU is going to be dealing with a government that has no idea what kind of Brexit it wants, led by an unrealistic politician whose days are numbered; and a party in which old trenches are being opened up again: moderate Tories are currently hoping to be able to bring about a softer exit after all, but the hardliners in the party – among them more than a few pigheadedly obstinate ideologues – are already threatening rebellion. An epic battle lies ahead, and it will paralyse the government.

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier has said that he now expects the Brits to finally set out their position clearly, since he cannot negotiate with himself. The irony of this statement is that it would actually be in Britain’s best interests if he did just that. At least that way they’d have one representative on their side who grasps the scale of the task and is actually capable of securing a deal that will be fair to both sides. The Brits do not have a single negotiator of this stature in their ranks. And quite apart from the Brexit terms, both the debate and the referendum have proven to be toxic in ways that are now making themselves felt.

British society is now more divided than at any time since the English civil war in the 17th century, a fact that was demonstrated anew in the general election, in which a good 80% of the votes were cast for the two largest parties. Neither of these parties was offering a centrist programme: the election was a choice between the hard right and the hard left. The political centre has been abandoned, and that is never a good sign. In a country like Great Britain, that for so long had a reputation for pragmatism and rationality, it is grounds for real concern. The situation is getting decidedly out of hand.

After the loss of its empire, the United Kingdom sought a new place in the world. It finally found it, as a strong, awkward and influential part of a larger union: the EU. Now it has given up this place quite needlessly. The consequence, as is now becoming clear, is a veritable identity crisis from which it will take the country a very long time to recover
http://mobile2.derbund.ch/articles/59442e3cab5c3744ba000001
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 22:33:30 pm by Maxi »

Offline Michael

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2017, 11:36:19 am »
It seems that some in the EU who hold these views are concerned for the continued existence of this undemocratic, unelected, neo liberal cartel, many who voted remain did so on the premise that the EU could be changed, the majority of British voters however felt otherwise, they voted to leave. The government has decided to back that view and negotiations have begun, the main concern now is that the split from Brussels should safeguard and maintain links but on our terms.
This may not be possible, but it is vital that these negotiations involve all political views and the final agreement is put before the British Parliament. All of the major political party's are split on the Brexit decision none more so than the current government, there is a long way to go but a settlement satisfying the EU and the British negotiators is possible.
Not "A hard Brexit" or a "Soft Brexit" but a negotiated settlement that maintains our links with our EU neighbours but allows us to legislate for this country's needs.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 11:58:00 am by Michael »

Offline John GL

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2017, 15:01:41 pm »
Blimey, I agree with Michael!  Never thought I'd say that about a political issue.

I wonder where the relentlessly negative spiel quoted by Maxi came from.  The author should be ashamed of himself/herself for putting the worst possible and most one-sided spin on everything said.

Offline Maxi

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2017, 22:29:07 pm »
Quote
I wonder where the relentlessly negative spiel quoted by Maxi came from


A german newspaper translated into English.

Offline Bob DeBilda

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2017, 10:19:50 am »


I wonder where the relentlessly negative spiel quoted by Maxi came from.  The author should be ashamed of himself/herself for putting the worst possible and most one-sided spin on everything said.

If anyone should be ashamed of what they have done it's Boris Johnson, Nigel Fromage. et al for spouting lies before the referendum and those who believed them!
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Offline Michael

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #53 on: June 21, 2017, 12:17:41 pm »


I wonder where the relentlessly negative spiel quoted by Maxi came from.  The author should be ashamed of himself/herself for putting the worst possible and most one-sided spin on everything said.

If anyone should be ashamed of what they have done it's Boris Johnson, Nigel Fromage. et al for spouting lies before the referendum and those who believed them!
Well that of course is true, aided and abetted by an extremely biased media, but there were quite strong and valid arguments for leaving the EU that did not get much coverage, and lies and half truths were told by both sides.
It was up to us as the voter to make up our own minds, which we did, rightly or wrongly, only the future can tell, but parliament must be given the right to decide when negotiations are complete if the end result is acceptable.
 

Offline Maxi

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2017, 12:51:50 pm »
http://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote-leave/



Well mystic clegg seems to be bang on! Will have to tap him up for the lottery numbers

Offline Mike Hawkins

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2017, 13:46:35 pm »
http://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote-leave/



Well mystic clegg seems to be bang on! Will have to tap him up for the lottery numbers


He didn't foresee losing his seat in Parliament, did he?
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Offline wanderlust

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2017, 11:21:43 am »
http://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote-leave/



Well mystic clegg seems to be bang on! Will have to tap him up for the lottery numbers


He didn't foresee losing his seat in Parliament, did he?

Even though the rest of us did.
Please would you walk a little faster, or get the f*** out of my way.

Offline Bob DeBilda

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2017, 11:41:32 am »
Theresa May didn't foresee losing her commons majority - even though the rest of the country did !
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Offline Michael

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2017, 13:01:59 pm »
To use the plight of Britain's domicile in EU countries as an issue, set against workers from the EU in this country, tit for tat, is as a starting point confrontational, and bound to fail, we need EU workers to staff our NHS and our farming needs.
Theresa May has in her first attempt at negotiating with the EU shown her weakness, confrontation is not the answer, co-operation is essential, Gove, Davis, and May seem to be trying to bully their way through these talks, it isn't going to work.

Offline Mike Hawkins

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2017, 18:36:30 pm »
To use the plight of Britain's domicile in EU countries as an issue, set against workers from the EU in this country, tit for tat, is as a starting point confrontational, and bound to fail, we need EU workers to staff our NHS and our farming needs.
Theresa May has in her first attempt at negotiating with the EU shown her weakness, confrontation is not the answer, co-operation is essential, Gove, Davis, and May seem to be trying to bully their way through these talks, it isn't going to work.

Do I take it then Michael, that you support the idea of EU citizens being allowed to remain here whilst our citizens living in the EU have no such guarantees?
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