Author Topic: Do we really care about Brexit  (Read 54264 times)

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Offline Shizzy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #615 on: August 29, 2019, 09:27:14 AM »
Maybe a strong supporter of remain can help answer this question.

We have heard much from strongly remain MP's about what they don't want. They have voted down the deal which was negotiated with the EU, and they don't want a no deal situation. The EU will not negotiate so what exactly do these MP's want? They don't want the deal on the table and they don't want 'no deal'.


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Offline Pete

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #616 on: August 29, 2019, 10:13:34 AM »
Maybe a strong supporter of remain can help answer this question.

We have heard much from strongly remain MP's about what they don't want. They have voted down the deal which was negotiated with the EU, and they don't want a no deal situation. The EU will not negotiate so what exactly do these MP's want? They don't want the deal on the table and they don't want 'no deal'.

You've answered your own question there Shizzy, they want to remain, and they've made it quite clear they will do everything they can to make it happen. They moan about Boris subverting democracy by Proroguing Parliament, but they are more than happy to undermine democracy when it suits them.

Offline mojo

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #617 on: August 29, 2019, 15:25:20 PM »
Maybe a strong supporter of remain can help answer this question.

We have heard much from strongly remain MP's about what they don't want. They have voted down the deal which was negotiated with the EU, and they don't want a no deal situation. The EU will not negotiate so what exactly do these MP's want? They don't want the deal on the table and they don't want 'no deal'.



Maybe a strong supporter of remain can help answer this question.

We have heard much from strongly remain MP's about what they don't want. They have voted down the deal which was negotiated with the EU, and they don't want a no deal situation. The EU will not negotiate so what exactly do these MP's want? They don't want the deal on the table and they don't want 'no deal'.

You've answered your own question there Shizzy, they want to remain, and they've made it quite clear they will do everything they can to make it happen. They moan about Boris subverting democracy by Proroguing Parliament, but they are more than happy to undermine democracy when it suits them.

If it had been only remain MPs who had voted down the negotiated deal then I could agree with you but given that it was the Brexiteers themselves who repeated voted against, I suggest you may need to widen your criticism. I also repeat that opposing something you disagree with is absolutely democratic, silencing critics by shutting parliament isn't.

The biggest problem is that article 50 was triggered before we as a country knew what we wanted from brexit other than to leave the EU, in other words what does the end goal look like? If membership of EFTA (Norway type arrangement) was the end state then I suspect that as was promised in the campaign could have been achieved with a lot less pain and division.

Offline Pete

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #618 on: August 29, 2019, 17:09:34 PM »
Maybe a strong supporter of remain can help answer this question.

We have heard much from strongly remain MP's about what they don't want. They have voted down the deal which was negotiated with the EU, and they don't want a no deal situation. The EU will not negotiate so what exactly do these MP's want? They don't want the deal on the table and they don't want 'no deal'.



Maybe a strong supporter of remain can help answer this question.

We have heard much from strongly remain MP's about what they don't want. They have voted down the deal which was negotiated with the EU, and they don't want a no deal situation. The EU will not negotiate so what exactly do these MP's want? They don't want the deal on the table and they don't want 'no deal'.

You've answered your own question there Shizzy, they want to remain, and they've made it quite clear they will do everything they can to make it happen. They moan about Boris subverting democracy by Proroguing Parliament, but they are more than happy to undermine democracy when it suits them.

If it had been only remain MPs who had voted down the negotiated deal then I could agree with you but given that it was the Brexiteers themselves who repeated voted against, I suggest you may need to widen your criticism. I also repeat that opposing something you disagree with is absolutely democratic, silencing critics by shutting parliament isn't.

The biggest problem is that article 50 was triggered before we as a country knew what we wanted from brexit other than to leave the EU, in other words what does the end goal look like? If membership of EFTA (Norway type arrangement) was the end state then I suspect that as was promised in the campaign could have been achieved with a lot less pain and division.

I wasn't talking about the voting down of the deal, which I happen to agree with because it was a really bad deal. I'm talking about this proposed vote of no confidence, If the remain MPs win that, they will install a puppet (unelected) Prime Minister who will revoke article 50.

Offline mojo

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #619 on: August 29, 2019, 17:27:39 PM »
Maybe a strong supporter of remain can help answer this question.

We have heard much from strongly remain MP's about what they don't want. They have voted down the deal which was negotiated with the EU, and they don't want a no deal situation. The EU will not negotiate so what exactly do these MP's want? They don't want the deal on the table and they don't want 'no deal'.



Maybe a strong supporter of remain can help answer this question.

We have heard much from strongly remain MP's about what they don't want. They have voted down the deal which was negotiated with the EU, and they don't want a no deal situation. The EU will not negotiate so what exactly do these MP's want? They don't want the deal on the table and they don't want 'no deal'.

You've answered your own question there Shizzy, they want to remain, and they've made it quite clear they will do everything they can to make it happen. They moan about Boris subverting democracy by Proroguing Parliament, but they are more than happy to undermine democracy when it suits them.

If it had been only remain MPs who had voted down the negotiated deal then I could agree with you but given that it was the Brexiteers themselves who repeated voted against, I suggest you may need to widen your criticism. I also repeat that opposing something you disagree with is absolutely democratic, silencing critics by shutting parliament isn't.

The biggest problem is that article 50 was triggered before we as a country knew what we wanted from brexit other than to leave the EU, in other words what does the end goal look like? If membership of EFTA (Norway type arrangement) was the end state then I suspect that as was promised in the campaign could have been achieved with a lot less pain and division.

I wasn't talking about the voting down of the deal, which I happen to agree with because it was a really bad deal. I'm talking about this proposed vote of no confidence, If the remain MPs win that, they will install a puppet (unelected) Prime Minister who will revoke article 50.

How is that any different from the position now?  We have an unelected PM now.

Offline Shizzy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #620 on: August 30, 2019, 08:09:15 AM »
We always have an unelected PM. We don't vote for PM's in this country.
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Offline DORIAN

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #621 on: August 30, 2019, 16:57:48 PM »
whatever fence you sit on, we are the laughing stock of Europe, the  government that we elected are a joke, as an ardent remainer,(but accepting the result)
i am fed up to the death with all this stuff, maybe one should renind ourselves that the UK were with allies that saved europs from the hitler invasion, and all that went with that
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Offline baldy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #622 on: September 05, 2019, 11:14:35 AM »
Looks like everyone is sick of it all ...  :o
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Offline DORIAN

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #623 on: September 05, 2019, 12:52:33 PM »
not often i agree with you but totally in agreement, I wonder what Brenda from Bristol is thinking >:(
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Offline Shizzy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #624 on: September 06, 2019, 15:48:14 PM »
A sad indictment of our democracy. I doubt any government will hold a referendum for generations to come. I'm surprised Jimmy Crankie keeps banging on about holding another one, can't she see the same issues being raised in Scotland?
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Offline baldy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #625 on: September 06, 2019, 19:33:23 PM »
JFC Ad
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Offline Bob DeBilda

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #626 on: September 11, 2019, 20:20:28 PM »
Looks like everyone is sick of it all ...  :o

Maybe, but I’m just watching BoJo slowly hang himself and ruin the Conservative party.

Corbin is doing the same to the Labour Party.

RIP British democracy courtesy of Cameron and his fecking referendum.
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Offline Shizzy

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #627 on: September 12, 2019, 08:47:43 AM »


RIP British democracy courtesy of Cameron and his fecking referendum.

Whilst he swans off earning money with that smug look on his face.
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Offline Maxi

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The no-deal documents that the government didn't want to release
« Reply #628 on: September 12, 2019, 09:03:55 AM »
The Yellowhammer plan warns of riots and food price rises, the public did not vote leave for this to happen

The government has released documents relating to its "Operation Yellowhammer" preparations for a no-deal Brexit.
Having been ordered to reveal the details by MPs, the five pages published on the government website warn of a rise in public disorder, delays lasting three months at Channel crossings, "significant" electricity price rises and impacts on medicine and food supplies.
The documents have been released after opposition MPs defeated the government in the House of Commons on Monday to order their publication.
The worst disruption at Channel crossings might last for up to three months before improving
Lorries could face maximum delays of two-and-a-half days before being able to cross the UK border
Possible immigration delays for UK holidaymakers at the Channel Tunnel, ferry crossings and airports
A likelihood of "significant" electricity price rises in Northern Ireland
Medicine supplies will be "particularly vulnerable to severe extended delays"
A potential reduction in the UK's ability to prevent animal disease outbreaks due to reduced supplies of veterinary medicines
Supplies of some fresh food will decrease, while supermarket prices may also rise
Panic buying could increase food supply problems
The possibility of urgent action to ensure access to clean water if there is a failure in the supply of chemicals - although the likelihood of this is considered "low"
Disruption in law enforcement data sharing between the UK and EU
Concerns that Gibraltar has not prepared well enough for a no-deal Brexit
"Significant amounts" of police time being taken up by protests and a possible rise in public disorder
The risk of disruption to fuel supplies in the South East of England
Possible clashes between UK and EU fishing vessels
UK efforts to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are "likely to prove unsustainable"
The document also warns the readiness for a no-deal Brexit among the public and businesses will "remain at a low level and will decrease to lower levels" due to uncertainty over the nature of the UK's exit from the EU.
This readiness will be "further limited" by what the document describes as "increasing EU exit fatigue".
The timing of a possible no-deal Brexit on 31 October also coincides with seasonal risks such as severe weather, flooding and flu outbreaks.
This could exacerbate a number of impacts of a no-deal Brexit and stretch resources, the document adds.
The end of the UK growing season and preparations for Christmas could also increase pressure on food supplies.
One paragraph of the document has been redacted due to "commercial sensitivity", the government said.
Labour shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer said the documents "confirm the severe risks of a no-deal Brexit".
He added: "It is completely irresponsible for the government to have tried to ignore these stark warnings and prevent the public from seeing the evidence.
"Boris Johnson must now admit that he has been dishonest with the British people about the consequence of a no-deal Brexit.
"It is also now more important than ever that parliament is recalled and has the opportunity to scrutinise these documents and take all steps necessary to stop no-deal."
Former justice secretary David Gauke, who served in Theresa May's government, said: "If anyone wondered why so many ministers in the last government are strongly opposed to a no-deal Brexit, read the Yellowhammer documents.
"But the problems with no deal don't end with the short-term disruption. It's in the long-term when the real damage will be done."
His fellow former Conservative minister Phillip Lee, who is now a Liberal Democrat MP, described the Operation Yellowhammer details as "remarkable" and "explosive".
He also questioned whether it was the full document, telling Sky News: "There's obviously more to see.
"If you look at the details of this document, it is shocking.
"Really, did people vote in 2016 to have problems accessing clean water? Did they vote to have problems accessing necessary emergency medicines?
"Did they vote to have to have problems with access to fresh food? Of course they didn't."
From the last 30 years of British political history, any one of the potential outcomes outlined in the document would be a national emergency and a crisis on an epic scale.
In 2001 we saw a lorry strike cause restricted access to fuel at the petrol pumps, and Tony Blair decided to delay a general election until it was sorted.
That's the sort of consequence that you might see if there is a no-deal Brexit because of disruption at the border.
This five-page document outlines lots and lots of those challenges.
These stark warnings tonight from officials from Theresa May's government in August suggest that the checklist of things the government would need to sort out is enormous.

https://news.sky.com/story/operation-yellowhammer-government-no-deal-brexit-documents-released-11807339




« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 12:48:53 PM by Maxi »

Offline Bob DeBilda

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Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Reply #629 on: September 12, 2019, 15:59:49 PM »
Pity that wasn’t posted on the side of a big red bus! The vote would have been a bit different.




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