Author Topic: Tumbleweed  (Read 1479 times)

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Offline jimkerr

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2018, 01:42:38 AM »
because i have no need to, as rhetoric against rhetoric proves nothing, i do not wish to have to prove to you anything other than what i have read, listened to and come to my own personal conclusions. If you have read and digested all the rhetoric  from the brexit issues, who do you believe?
Exactly, one draws on ones own conclusions.... and thank God we Can

Sorry we all make our decisions on what we see and listen to Dorian but you are saying about people with 50 inch TV's etc etc on Benefits I have heard the same things ever since I was a teenager getting paid £25 on a YTS Scheme working 40 hours and listening to people doing the same work getting Full pay moaning about paying tax while people was on the dole doing nothing. Has Theresa says Nothing Has Changed and the Tory Party Has Not Changed it's still Nasty and picks one section of society against another. Sold Council houses to pay the unemployed in thatcher's time we know what happen to the money the Government got for selling the Council houses. You say you listen and make your own decisions that makes me think you believe what you read and watch is true and thats what the Medua wants because most Media are Right Wing i believe in the best of people and i have i hope a good outllook on people and believe in socialism where everyone is taken care of be he poor, Black, white but then again I am a dreamer and I always Question what is being said even by Baldy  ;D

Offline DORIAN

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2018, 11:36:34 AM »
but surely that is what makes life a box of chocolates, and thankfully the freedom of speech in what we can deliver.
With Thatcher, half of the UK thought her a witch where the other half saw her as a heroine
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Offline Bob DeBilda

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2018, 19:46:05 PM »

With Thatcher, half of the UK thought her a witch where the other half saw her as a heroine

That depended whether you profited from her policies or not.

Those with greed and no conscience loved her. Those with compassion and morals despised her.

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Offline DORIAN

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2018, 10:52:00 AM »
i have been scrolling through the positives and negatives of many political leaders and their lasting legacies. I am no Born in the blue Tory in any such way, but if history teaches us anything, then its not one hat fits all!! in this country there is still a North/South Divide, and looking at the poll breakdowns its obvious the sensitivity of the two political parties
I have said, Now is the time to drop Party Politics and create a United UK Party (not like before) one where the benefits and the rewards are for the UK citizens, the safety of them and the strength of the economy
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Offline baldy

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2018, 19:54:56 PM »
Dorian

Forget trying to suggest one UK party ...

The only possible way to get a government of national unity or common purpose with the 2 largest parties working together is if the 2 largest parties could agree who would be the overall leader and PM.

At this point, we realise how laughable the state of our national politics really is.

Both parties would be incapable of identifying anyone who would be acceptable to their own party let alone for both parties ............   I say this on the basis that Mrs May and JC are both manifestly too incompetent and loathed by too many to be considered.

If you can't find a clear and obvious leader, you can't form a government of national unity ...




« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 19:56:50 PM by baldy »
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Offline Michael

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2019, 12:03:21 PM »
Dorian
Forget trying to suggest one UK party
The only possible way to get a government of national unity or common purpose with the 2 largest parties working together is if the 2 largest parties could agree who would be the overall leader and PM.
I agree, our politics have become polarised, with a very right wing Tory party, and a democratic socialist leaning Labour Party, the differences are too great.
Perhaps if the Labour Party were to return to the right wing policies they once adopted, and the Tory's to the John Major era, then such a coalition would be possible, but it wouldn't solve the problem.
The failed government policies of Major, the no longer supported Blair/Brown Labour policies, and the disaster that was the Con/Lib Dem government followed by Camron's ill prepared referendum have brought us to where we are, things have moved on. A return to the post war Atlee style Labour government is the only way forward.
Austerity driven neo liberal governments have created a rift in our population, the haves and the have nots, the circle can not be squared. If we add to this the "pigs ear" that has been made of negotiations for our withdrawal from the EU, we are where we are.
A General Election and a new Government with a peoples agenda is vital, we may not get that because Theresa May seems determined to hang on and not to relinquish her waning authority. 

Offline DORIAN

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2019, 13:31:46 PM »
purely for information purposes, What actually would a general Election deliver at this juncture, and i am not being cynical, just would like to think what you think
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Offline Michael

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2019, 15:23:25 PM »
purely for information purposes, What actually would a general Election deliver at this juncture, and i am not being cynical, just would like to think what you think
I think that it would give all party's an opportunity to state policy on the EU question, but it would also give voters the chance to vote for a government with a clear and strong mandate. The current position is not ideal as the government is dependant on the support of the DUP whose own position in the North of Ireland is not particularly strong.

Offline baldy

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2019, 16:48:43 PM »
But, the Conservatives will not agree to an early general election.
A majority vote of two thirds of the House of Commons in favour is needed to trigger an early vote under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011.
It's not going to happen unless the Queen decides to dissolve parliament for some other reason.


I am beginning to think that Theresa May will stand down as an MP to go to the House of Lords this Spring or early Summer whether we leave the EU or not on 29 March as she is becoming more and more disliked by all except her payroll MPs. She is going to be the most disliked of all living ex-PMs anyway and the longer she stays in post the more this will become clear with more and more people expressing their extreme disgust with her and all about her. I personally shiver just hearing her awful voice and then again when I see her walk. As for seeing her attempt to dance, I almost feel like throwing up at how awful she is in almost every respect thinkable ... even her shoes are detestable, especially the ones she wore to church about 9 months ago with nasty green spikes on which a Fem-Dom would wear to cause v serious damage ......





« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 16:52:38 PM by baldy »
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Offline DORIAN

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2019, 17:00:09 PM »
Look, OK, she obviously is to the two of you your not best bed companion....... BUT WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN, there has been no clear water, and as a result anything she does is not pleasing everyone. but no one has anything to offer. She is in a Rock and FFFFFFFFing hard place.  how can you criticize and almost crucify her   for being the mouthpiece of f Whitehall
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Offline baldy

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2019, 17:08:23 PM »
The easy answer is that the Tories should have gone ahead with a full leadership contest when David Cameron resigned in 2016. This would have meant Andrea Leadsom MP would have won. Whilst she is no great leader, she does demonstrate all-round steadiness, maturity and above all general competence with a true and clear vision of what BREXIT really means as she was an official Brexit campaign leader herself.

I bet she can dance well too.

She would not have been a wonderful PM, but I think she would have picked a cabinet to deliver Brexit clearly and competently rather than the shambles that is occurring because of the current cabinet being split between remainers and leavers, thus paralysing everything ....  . She would also not have called an election and lost her majority like the bloody awful and incompetent Mrs May did.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 17:22:39 PM by baldy »
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Offline DORIAN

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2019, 17:35:12 PM »
so Miss Landsome is your queen in  leadership. and of course she would have delivered a better Brexit with Junker.......Dont think so!!! and what on earth makes you think she would.......Bizarre
if you look look at all these threads it will be obvious to all that we are well and truly buggered
Happy new year to all
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Offline baldy

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2019, 19:42:15 PM »
WTF! I did not say that nonsense, Dorian!


A true Brexiteer would have established what needed to be done much quicker and earlier. Mrs Leadsom is a true believer, not a pretender like Mrs May who is just fudging everything ....

Mrs May has very slowly reached a proposed compromise deal thus leaving it very late to prepare for a no deal Brexit (ie. No EU - UK specific deal) onto World Trade Organisation terms.

A proper Brexiteer approach would have involved establishing whether the EU terms would be any good far quicker and making preparations for going onto WTO terms far earlier so that it would all be much smoother than it will be (if it happens).
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 19:48:55 PM by baldy »
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Offline Michael

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2019, 19:59:34 PM »
With 60% of the vote in the second ballot Theresa May had the support of her MPs and it's unlikely that anyone would have beaten her. Leadsom, with very little experience of high office is unlikely to have been voted for by the members, despite her support for the leave campaign.
The undoubted leader of the Leave campaign was in fact BOJO who would have probably been a contender had he not been stabbed in the back by Gove.
The real villain of the peice was Cameron, who set up the referendum without plans in place for the result which ever way it went, he ran away from his responsibilities leaving the new leader, whoever, to sort things out. But it was a cabinet decision, and they all must bear some responsibility for the failure to plan ahead. It was therefore a Tory "Cock Up".
Anyone with an ounce of sense would have realized that the EU would not make it easy to leave, and those who were going to negotiate should have been in place and able to plan accordingly in that event.
As I have said before we are where we are and if the government can't get a majority in the commons to vote for an agreement, then they should resign. Unlikely as that may seem it is the only logical outcome.
 
 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 20:03:10 PM by Michael »

Offline baldy

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Re: Tumbleweed
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2019, 21:25:57 PM »
You are ignoring the relevant facts, Michael.

The Conservative Party leadership election process involves putting the two candidates with the most votes amongst MPs to the party membership. Yes, Mrs May got the most votes amongst MPs, but Mrs Leadsom qualified to be the second candidate.

Mrs May was only able to become leader without a vote by the membership because Mrs Leadsom gracefully pulled out, thus meaning Mrs May was left by default as leader of the party and so PM.

If it had gone to a membership vote, I understand from many Conservative Party members who I have spoken to that it was a dead cert that the Brexiteer candidate (Mrs Leadsom) would have stormed it .... regardless of her lack of high office experience.

I've been about for long enough to know that people with long experience in high places are not necessarily any good at the job and might be there because they pulled a string or two or someone put them there as a token [insert quality deemed lacking otherwise - eg. black, female, working class, northener, state schooled, qualified medic, gay etc].

In Mrs May's case, her only experience of high office was as Home Secretary and her record was pretty abysmal. She was seen as just about capable in doing a job no-one else really wanted to do and when capable females (if not brilliant) were in short supply in the cabinet.

I clearly recall what a new LibDem group leader (Sarah Content) said at West Wilts District Council when power shifted from a rainbow alliance of Cons, Labour and Independents to the LibDems with Labour and Independents in the mid 90s and she had only been a councillor for about 3 months or so. She was criticised for having very little experience when the LibDems announced who their new leader was and that she would be the council leader. She was a single  mum with 4 kids who basically said that length of service as a councillor does not impress her as it is no indication of competence and, moreover, her ability and experience as a Mum would serve her well in leading the hung council made up of councillors who all tended to argue endlessly about everything ...

I quickly agreed that she was right about length of service being no indication at all about whether a councillor was any good at anything at all.

She did a disappearing trick a year or so later (actually ran as a paper candidate with no campaign in the wrong town at the elections and so was not returned - and moved away) when her close personal relationship with the council's head lawyer was discovered (and quickly heard of everywhere).  She was unforgettable in that her massive boob-job chest distracted from the reality that she had a law degree and actually spoke clearly about complex issues ... especially after a personal legal briefing from the head lawyer .... who had been clearly sucking up to her at every opportunity since she became leader ...

At her last full council meeting with her as leader, she wore a very thin and low blouse which showed off her impressive cleavage incredibly well ..... and lots of councillors were chuckling away whilst waiting for the meeting to start. I shouted out "They've got my vote" and she laughed her head off .... and other councillors stopped to look and went quiet .....

Yup, experience means f all much of the time ...
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 21:55:16 PM by baldy »
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