Topic: General Election 2019

[baldy]

I certainly believe the last 10 words there.

[Shizzy]

This election has punished the MP's, and parties that decided to ignore the result of the referendum. I voted remain but have been disgusted at the behaviour of some MP's who have wantonly tried to subvert the result. In a democracy you may not like the result but have to respect it, and this has not happened in the case of the referendum. Those that chose to overturn the result have now paid the price.

Jimmy Krankie was calling for another independence referendum well before the result of in /out EU referendum. She also has a perverted view of democracy and will keep calling for referenda until she gets the result SHE wants.

In respect of Ireland, the Good Friday agreement states that they can call a referendum in respect of independence, so this is not new 'if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland.". Brexit may have accelerated that, equally the DUP views on abortion gay rights may also have had an impact on their poor showing.

Ardent remainers seem to lay every problem at the door of Brexit. Time to suck it up, accept you lost (as I have) move on and take a constructive part in getting the best deal. Or would you rather the UK suffered so you can later say 'I told you so'

[mojo]

This election has punished the MP's, and parties that decided to ignore the result of the referendum. I voted remain but have been disgusted at the behaviour of some MP's who have wantonly tried to subvert the result. In a democracy you may not like the result but have to respect it, and this has not happened in the case of the referendum. Those that chose to overturn the result have now paid the price.

Jimmy Krankie was calling for another independence referendum well before the result of in /out EU referendum. She also has a perverted view of democracy and will keep calling for referenda until she gets the result SHE wants.

In respect of Ireland, the Good Friday agreement states that they can call a referendum in respect of independence, so this is not new 'if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland.". Brexit may have accelerated that, equally the DUP views on abortion gay rights may also have had an impact on their poor showing.

Ardent remainers seem to lay every problem at the door of Brexit. Time to suck it up, accept you lost (as I have) move on and take a constructive part in getting the best deal. Or would you rather the UK suffered so you can later say 'I told you so'

I agree with much of what you say with one exception.  The 2014 Scottish referendum, the Scots were clearly told at the time that they were better off staying in the UK  as that meant they were at the top table of the EU (NATO and UN too).  That will no longer be true by the end of January, therefore they could have a case to revisit the referendum. Scotland voted to remain both in the UK and the EU, they are being taken out on the back of English votes.

Cheers
Mojo

[John GL]

I agree with much of what you say with one exception.  The 2014 Scottish referendum, the Scots were clearly told at the time that they were better off staying in the UK  as that meant they were at the top table of the EU (NATO and UN too).  That will no longer be true by the end of January, therefore they could have a case to revisit the referendum. Scotland voted to remain both in the UK and the EU, they are being taken out on the back of English votes.

Cheers
Mojo

A bit like 1964 and 1974, then, when the Conservatives had overall majorities in England but got Labour governments through Scottish and Welsh votes.  I don't remember the English complaining about that.  And certainly Brexit won't affect the Scots' position in NATO and the UN.

Cheers

John GL

[mojo]

I agree with much of what you say with one exception.  The 2014 Scottish referendum, the Scots were clearly told at the time that they were better off staying in the UK  as that meant they were at the top table of the EU (NATO and UN too).  That will no longer be true by the end of January, therefore they could have a case to revisit the referendum. Scotland voted to remain both in the UK and the EU, they are being taken out on the back of English votes.

Cheers
Mojo

A bit like 1964 and 1974, then, when the Conservatives had overall majorities in England but got Labour governments through Scottish and Welsh votes.  I don't remember the English complaining about that.  And certainly Brexit won't affect the Scots' position in NATO and the UN.

Cheers

John GL

The argument is; if they become independent then they are yet another small nation with a lesser voice at these organisations. Therefore having rejected Brexit and being taken out of the EU against their will  the bargain struck in 2014 is void hence the case for revisiting the relationship.

Your second point about the English not complaining about Labour gifts being elected on the back of Scottish and Welsh votes is well made, but I'd argue that we're not as united now as we were then. Brexit has sown divisions that will not be easily repaired and whilst I don't believe anyone will not do their utmost to ensure the UK remains successful I'm not sure that a large percentage of the population will be happy about brexit for a longtime.

It will interesting to read the headlines once holiday makers to the Med find themselves subject to longer delays at immigration in Spain, Greece etc...  Visitors to the New York may be familiar with the 2.5hr queue at JFK.
Still we'll be out in January no point in worrying now   

sorry for the rambling reply - it's been long day

Cheers
Mojo

[Shizzy]

I travelled widely throughout Europe in the 70's and 80's before free movement, never a problem. When the train crossed countries guards would stick their heads in the carriage, you lifted up your passport and they moved on to the next carriage. Same at road and sea borders. In fact, it took no longer than now.

[mojo]

I travelled widely throughout Europe in the 70's and 80's before free movement, never a problem. When the train crossed countries guards would stick their heads in the carriage, you lifted up your passport and they moved on to the next carriage. Same at road and sea borders. In fact, it took no longer than now.

Free movement existed in the 70's and 80's as the principle is free movement of labour not people. I also remember border crossings then and recall that some crosing points  were definitely easier than others!  The key change since then has been that EU citizens have been treated the same at ports of entry regardless of nationality, so in Spain you joined the Spaniards at immigration. That will stop although I'm not sure if that is 2020 or 2021. A few years ago I drove to Croatia just after they had joined the EU but like the UK not part of Schengen, as EU citizens the crossing between Slovenia and Croatia was fairly painless in both directions. The non EU queue both sides of the border was significant. That is the change that many people will see first.  If we end up in a simillar position to Norway then this will not be an issue, outside the EU but with free movement....

Cheers
Mojo

[baldy]

YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9opaRxk4SE

[baldy]

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsp-OM5jSUM


I always enjoy listening to Len (What an @$$Hole) McCluskey.

[baldy]

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e53B0nwwQj4

[baldy]

YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui0WcZBzRAk

[baldy]

YouTube:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VWP8Nz0axo

[mojo]

YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui0WcZBzRAk

I think he may be right, but then again I also think the same can be said of the ERG within the Tory party. Both are parties within parties.

Cheers

Mojo

[baldy]

YouTube:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzDX2M0HpCE


Key part starts at 5:00 (minutes:secs) in.

[baldy]

YouTube:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIrOQ2Jv_Ng