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91
In the News / Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Last post by Bob DeBilda on September 20, 2019, 18:56:19 PM »
There’s an argument now that the result of the years and years ago referendum be disregarded as most of those who voted leave then, are now dead and the majority is now with remain.

 ;D  8)
92
In the News / Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Last post by Shizzy on September 19, 2019, 18:46:22 PM »
Not surprised, it was pretty bad, and would have guaranteed she lost her seat.
94
In the News / Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Last post by Michael on September 19, 2019, 07:32:43 AM »

The vote is certainly being ignored by the Lib/Dems, and the Tory government who have been in power since the 2016 referendum have spectacularly failed to get any agreement on fulfilling the required result.
Both major party's in parliament stood on a policy of accepting that referendum result in the 2017 GE and indeed parliament itself voted to implement Article 50.
It remains to be seen whether PM Johnson is able to get any deal and parliament have voted against a no deal, the Labour Party leadership believes a deal is possible and are ready to negotiate one, once negotiated this can be put to the nation that's real democracy
95
In the News / Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Last post by mojo on September 18, 2019, 17:42:44 PM »


Mojo says, "the Lib Dem decision is democratic; in a democracy people have the absolute right to oppose things they disagree with and to voice that opposition."
There is nothing wrong in opposing Brexit, but that issue was put to a referendum and voters decided to leave the EU, democracy demands that issue should be dealt with, not ignored as the Lib/Dems proposed to do, nothing democratic in ignoring 17.4 ml voters who were in the majority.

The vote hasn't been ignored. Various governments have spent the last 3 years trying to implement that vote. My understanding is that the Lib Dems are claiming that the past 3 yrs has shown that Brexit cannot be delivered in a way that protects the fabric and integrity of the UK, that a majority no longer support BREXIT and therefore propose to rescind Article 50. If an election is called that will be in their manifesto and it will tested at the ballot. That is the democratic process in the UK. If you don't support their view vote for those whose view you do support; democracy in action.

Mojo
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In the News / Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Last post by Michael on September 18, 2019, 16:47:36 PM »


Mojo says, "the Lib Dem decision is democratic; in a democracy people have the absolute right to oppose things they disagree with and to voice that opposition."
There is nothing wrong in opposing Brexit, but that issue was put to a referendum and voters decided to leave the EU, democracy demands that issue should be dealt with, not ignored as the Lib/Dems proposed to do, nothing democratic in ignoring 17.4 ml voters who were in the majority.
98
In the News / Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Last post by baldy on September 17, 2019, 21:50:47 PM »
I agree, Mojo.  There is nothing more democratic than standing on a policy at a general election and then, if they win a majority, implementing their policy. This is how democracy works, pure and simple.

It is up to the people to vote. Simple.


Of course, though, there is not a cat in Hell's chance of the Limp-Dems winning a majority, but them campaigning as the one true Remain party will do wonders to ensure that Brexit actually occurs with a stronger Conservative Party ... perhaps with help from Nigel and his Brexit Party ...
99
In the News / Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Last post by mojo on September 17, 2019, 21:28:21 PM »
It's an interesting stance by the Lib Dems, and all or nothing approach.  To be fair they don't really have much to lose, and a lot to gain by have a clear policy. They will obviously lose seats in the pro leave areas of the south west, but will pick up seats in pro remain areas that Labour / Cons currently hold.

Their problem is that they are very unlikely to have a majority, but very likely to be part of any coalition. By ruling out working the BoJo and JFC where does that leave them?
The Lib/ Dems decision to ignore the result of 2016 referendum is neither liberal nor democratic, the current Conservative Government policy, far from being conservative is in fact a radical change from its normal stance, the Labour policy of accepting the result of the referendum is not popular in some areas, and indeed has its critics within the party, all parties are split.
The current situation is unlike any in recent past and therefore difficult to call, but the Labour Party must hold its ground, its manifesto for the 2017 GE was to accept the referendum result, and to negotiate a deal to leave, pandering to a supposed support for remain is not the answer.

I'll be contrary. The Lib Dem decision is democratic; in a democracy people have the absolute right to oppose things they disagree with and to voice that opposition.  I find it perverse that to claim this opposition is undemocratic, it is the very essence of democracy.  The Lib Dems are stating their clear opposition by declaring that they will revoke Article 50. There may well be an election and those who bother to vote can register their support or rejection of Lib Dem position at the ballot box.

The fundamentals of democracy is that statment of belief, it then being tested in a vote and crucially the right to change your mind.  As leading brexiter David Davis says "if a democracy cannot change its mind then it ceases to be a democracy".

If you support the Lib Dem position then vote, if you reject that position then guess what? VOTE!

The way things are currently going we're going to end up like Italy and have general elections every 6 months...

Mojo
100
In the News / Re: Do we really care about Brexit
« Last post by Michael on September 17, 2019, 17:29:04 PM »
It's an interesting stance by the Lib Dems, and all or nothing approach.  To be fair they don't really have much to lose, and a lot to gain by have a clear policy. They will obviously lose seats in the pro leave areas of the south west, but will pick up seats in pro remain areas that Labour / Cons currently hold.

Their problem is that they are very unlikely to have a majority, but very likely to be part of any coalition. By ruling out working the BoJo and JFC where does that leave them?
The Lib/ Dems decision to ignore the result of 2016 referendum is neither liberal nor democratic, the current Conservative Government policy, far from being conservative is in fact a radical change from its normal stance, the Labour policy of accepting the result of the referendum is not popular in some areas, and indeed has its critics within the party, all parties are split.
The current situation is unlike any in recent past and therefore difficult to call, but the Labour Party must hold its ground, its manifesto for the 2017 GE was to accept the referendum result, and to negotiate a deal to leave, pandering to a supposed support for remain is not the answer.
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